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    The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

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    kuqezi

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    The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by kuqezi on Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:50 am

    In this thread we can discuss the ongoing work taking place at The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project which is first known attempt to document the genetic paternal lines, or Y-DNA haplogroups, of the northern Albanian Gheg tribes, also known as clans or fis in Albanian, many of which have an oral tradition of common patrilineal descent. Each entry is based on a one-man genetic sample.

    Here is the link to the official page which includes all up to date results: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/albanian-bloodlines/about/results
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Admin on Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:07 pm

    I see the I1 Gashi is only listed that he is from Kosova. If you want to add more detail, he is from Llapushnik , Drenica.
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by kuqezi on Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:52 pm

    Admin wrote:I see the I1 Gashi is only listed that he is from Kosova. If you want to add more detail, he is from Llapushnik , Drenica.

    Yes I've been meaning to ask you about him I knew he was from Drenica but I was not certain where.
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Admin on Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:45 pm

    kuqezi wrote:
    Admin wrote:I see the I1 Gashi is only listed that he is from Kosova. If you want to add more detail, he is from Llapushnik , Drenica.

    Yes I've been meaning to ask you about him I knew he was from Drenica but I was not certain where.
    Cool. Are there any discounts currently at ftdna that you know of through our project?
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Trojet on Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:50 pm

    Admin wrote:Cool. Are there any discounts currently at ftdna that you know of through our project?

    Yes. There is a $20 automatic discount for Y-DNA by ordering through our project. I recommend the Y-DNA 37, but someone can just start with Y-DNA 12 and the only way to order Y-DNA 12 at FTDNA now is through projects. However, I would not expect much from Y-DNA 12 besides just being assigned the basic haplogroup:
    https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?group=AlbanianBloodlines&code=B11086
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Trojet on Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:31 pm

    Just found out there is a coupon code Swede2015 at FTDNA for any product over $100 good thru Sept. 5, 2015. So by ordering thru our project with the coupon code, Y-DNA 37 would be $127, regular price $169.
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Admin on Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:49 pm

    Cool! How about y67, how much would it come to?

    Edit: got it from $268 with the cupon it only costs $227.80
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Trojet on Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:57 pm

    Admin wrote:Cool! How about y67, how much would it come to?

    To be honest with you, I dont think Y-DNA 67 is worth the extra $100. IMO, it is best to start with YDNA 37 and in case there is a lot of matches at 37 markers, then it would make sense to upgrade to YDNA 67 knowing that those matches upgraded to YDNA 67 as well, to better refine those matches. So YDNA 67 is irrelevant if there is no matches, since it will not get you any deeper into the haplotree. But yeah this 15% coupon is good for anything over $100 good thru Sept. 5.
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Admin on Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:04 pm

    Trojet wrote:
    Admin wrote:Cool! How about y67, how much would it come to?

    To be honest with you, I dont think Y-DNA 67 is worth the extra $100. IMO, it is best to start with YDNA 37 and in case there is a lot of matches at 37 markers, then it would make sense to upgrade to YDNA 67 knowing that those matches upgraded to YDNA 67 as well, to better refine those matches. So YDNA 67 is irrelevant if there is no matches, since it will not get you any deeper into the haplotree. But yeah this 15% coupon is good for anything over $100 good thru Sept. 5.


    You would know better then me since you have tested there, but to me y67 makes more sense because I want to isolate those matches that show up when you are only entering the tree. At least this is how I understand how it works at ftdna.
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Trojet on Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:24 pm

    Admin wrote:
    Trojet wrote:
    Admin wrote:Cool! How about y67, how much would it come to?

    To be honest with you, I dont think Y-DNA 67 is worth the extra $100. IMO, it is best to start with YDNA 37 and in case there is a lot of matches at 37 markers, then it would make sense to upgrade to YDNA 67 knowing that those matches upgraded to YDNA 67 as well, to better refine those matches. So YDNA 67 is irrelevant if there is no matches, since it will not get you any deeper into the haplotree. But yeah this 15% coupon is good for anything over $100 good thru Sept. 5.


    You would know better then me since you have tested there, but to me y67 makes more sense because I want to isolate those matches that show up when you are only entering the tree. At least this is how I understand how it works at ftdna.

    Yes. True, if Y-DNA 37 matches disappear at the Y-DNA 67 level, then those matches are not that "near" except the ones that hold up at 67 markers. So if the matches that still do hold up haven't done any SNP testing or BigY, you still wouldn't know the most recent SNP on the tree you and those hypothetical matches belong to. For this reason I think its better to start with Y-DNA 37, but of course someone can order Y-DNA 67. STRs give you an indication that you match someone, but only SNP testing will verify how close that match is, for this reason I trust SNPs rather than upgrading STRs. Another thing to keep in mind is that Next Generation Tests, such as BigY, which currenly is $488 with the coupon, are expected to go down in price in the near future. So someone can just take that test and wouldn't need to take any additional Y DNA tests since it will test the known SNPs of the haplogroups as well as it will give you personal (recent) undiscovered SNPs. Those personal SNPs will then become discovered when someone else will be positive for one or more of those SNPs. Also with YFULL interpretation someone is able to extract over 100 STRs from BigY or FGC.
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Admin on Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:14 pm

    ** New **

    Elshani (or Helshani) - Kosova (Bajë, Malisheva Municipality): R1b CTS9219
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Trojet on Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:13 pm

    Admin wrote:
    ** New **

    Elshani (or Helshani) - Kosova (Bajë, Malisheva Municipality): R1b CTS9219

    Admin, don't you belong to the same Clan too? If so, it would be interesting to see how close you are to this example if indeed you are R1b>M269>L23>Z2103>CTS9219 like this example is.
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Admin on Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:00 pm

    Trojet wrote:
    Admin wrote:
    ** New **

    Elshani (or Helshani) - Kosova (Bajë, Malisheva Municipality): R1b CTS9219

    Admin, don't you belong to the same Clan too? If so, it would be interesting to see how close you are to this example if indeed you are R1b>M269>L23>Z2103>CTS9219 like this example is.

    ,
    Indeed I do, but we adopted this sub Clan when we settled our village as I am originally Thaci. Though, Helshani/Elshani is a sub branch or nen fis of Thaci Wink. Theoratically I should be, but as we have seen so far the Clans in Kosova are not homogenous or what they used to be in Malesi; they absorbed other families. We have a member from this fis that belongs to I2a and a Thaci that is E-V13. I want to say that I too am CTS9219 but 23andme has no call for L23 on my results, as we have discussed, so I can't say for sure. 23andme though can be off.
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Admin on Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:46 pm

    ** New **

    Sopi - Macedonia (Sllupcan, Karadak region): R1b CTS9219
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by kuqezi on Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:08 pm

    Admin wrote:
    ** New **

    Sopi - Macedonia (Sllupcan, Karadak region): R1b CTS9219

    This result challenges my previous assumption that Sopi would likely turn out exclusively EV13 based on our previous two samples and the nature of this clan being based on a brotherhood. According to Jovan Trifunski's information, the Sopi of Sllupcan are migrants from Malsia which makes it unlikely that they were natives who adopted this clan from Gheg migrants. We will need more results to sort this out and determine the nature of this fis. It is possible that this R1b branch is just an outlier given its 2-1 nature so far and since one of our EV13 samples is specifiacally from Morina, the root tribe of Sopi.

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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Admin on Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:00 pm

    kuqezi wrote:
    Admin wrote:
    ** New **

    Sopi - Macedonia (Sllupcan, Karadak region): R1b CTS9219

    This result challenges my previous assumption that Sopi would likely turn out exclusively EV13 based on our previous two samples and the nature of this clan being based on a brotherhood.  According to Jovan Trifunski's information, the Sopi of Sllupcan are migrants from Malsia which makes it unlikely that they were natives who adopted this clan from Gheg migrants.  We will need more results to sort this out and determine the nature of this fis.  It is possible that this R1b branch is just an outlier given its 2-1 nature so far and since one of our EV13 samples is specifiacally from Morina, the root tribe of Sopi.

    Yeah we need more results for sure to be able to make any conclusion at this point. From what I remember though, we also had a R1b Morina in our project but you pulled if off because we couldn't confirm it, right?

    Also, I have been meaning to ask you on regards to our Kryeziu-Morina example. Kryeziu is their last name or a brotherhood of Morina in this case? Reason I am asking is because Kryeziu, if I am not mistaken, are regarded as a brotherhood of Thaci, at least the ones from Iballa, Puka.
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by kuqezi on Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:24 pm

    Admin wrote:
    kuqezi wrote:
    Admin wrote:
    ** New **

    Sopi - Macedonia (Sllupcan, Karadak region): R1b CTS9219

    This result challenges my previous assumption that Sopi would likely turn out exclusively EV13 based on our previous two samples and the nature of this clan being based on a brotherhood.  According to Jovan Trifunski's information, the Sopi of Sllupcan are migrants from Malsia which makes it unlikely that they were natives who adopted this clan from Gheg migrants.  We will need more results to sort this out and determine the nature of this fis.  It is possible that this R1b branch is just an outlier given its 2-1 nature so far and since one of our EV13 samples is specifiacally from Morina, the root tribe of Sopi.

    Yeah we need more results for sure to be able to make any conclusion at this point. From what I remember though, we also had a R1b Morina in our project but you pulled if off because we couldn't confirm it, right?

    Also, I have been meaning to ask you on regards to our Kryeziu-Morina example. Kryeziu is their last name or a brotherhood of Morina in this case? Reason I am asking is because Kryeziu, if I am not mistaken, are regarded as a brotherhood of Thaci, at least the ones from Iballa, Puka.

    Yes, but it was specifically his fis that I could not confirm. He was a poster on a genetics forum who had listed by his handle his his HG and where he was from, "Morine". As we know a village even named after a fis usually contains multiple tribes for example Morina in Drenica.

    No their last name was not tribal at all. According to them and also in the ethnographic literature their tribe was Kryeziu, Morina brotherhood. I was also able to come across a family in the Bujanoc area that was by fis Kryeziu, and said that they belonged to the Bytyci brotherhood. And of course there are numerous Sopi, Morina brotherhood.

    Logically it is the vllazni, the brotherhood in these cases that is their actual blood relations-fis. The former appears to be where they are from, like the village of Kryezi, which in Thaci territory. There were no Kryeziu recorded in the village of Morina (Qafa e Morines), on the other hand the Morina tribe was relatively much more spread out, 30 houses of the fis Morina were recorded by Coon in the town of Puka for example. Most obviously though the Bytyci are not a branch of Kryeziu. We are just seeing a case of 'fis confusion' that happened outside of the highlands.





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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Admin on Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:03 pm

    kuqezi wrote:


    Yeah we need more results for sure to be able to make any conclusion at this point. From what I remember though, we also had a R1b Morina in our project but you pulled if off because we couldn't confirm it, right?

    Also, I have been meaning to ask you on regards to our Kryeziu-Morina example. Kryeziu is their last name or a brotherhood of Morina in this case? Reason I am asking is because Kryeziu, if I am not mistaken, are regarded as a brotherhood of Thaci, at least the ones from Iballa, Puka.

    Yes, but it was specifically his fis that I could not confirm.  He was a poster on a genetics forum who had listed by his handle his his HG and where he was from, "Morine".  As we know a village even named after a fis usually contains multiple tribes for example Morina in Drenica.  

    No their last name was not tribal at all.  According to them and also in the ethnographic literature their tribe was Kryeziu, Morina brotherhood.  I was also able to come across a family in the Bujanoc area that was by fis Kryeziu, and said that they belonged to the Bytyci brotherhood.  And of course there are numerous Sopi, Morina brotherhood.  

    Logically it is the vllazni, the brotherhood in these cases that is their actual blood relations-fis.  The former appears to be where they are from, like the village of Kryezi, which in Thaci territory.  There were no Kryeziu recorded in the village of Morina (Qafa e Morines), on the other hand the Morina tribe was relatively much more spread out, 30 houses of the fis Morina were recorded by Coon in the town of Puka for example.  Most obviously though the Bytyci are not a branch of Kryeziu.  We are just seeing a case of 'fis confusion' that happened outside of the highlands.  





    True, but I just brought him up to point out that there is a possibility that part of Morina could be R1b. They are quite widespread in Kosova too. Have you ran across any literature mentioning the Sopi from Llapushnik? It would be good to try and find out where they came from. 

    Regarding Kryeziu, I can't find that link any more, but if you remember, I posted it once at anthroshqip where the old man says that Kryeziu and few other little Clans in that region are Thaci nen fis (Kryeziu that inhabit the Kryeziu village in Puka, Thaci territory). Kryeziu is wide spread among Albos though as a last name, even among Arvanits, so it doesn't have to be linked to one region or a Clan for that matter. 

    Probably they made a mistake when they wrote them. Maybe they were fis Bytyci, Kryeziu brotherhood. Going by how widespread this name seems to be, there is a possibility that such a last name grew under Bytyci as a brotherhood, just like in this case in Morina I guess.
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by kuqezi on Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:58 pm

    Admin wrote:
    kuqezi wrote:


    Yeah we need more results for sure to be able to make any conclusion at this point. From what I remember though, we also had a R1b Morina in our project but you pulled if off because we couldn't confirm it, right?

    Also, I have been meaning to ask you on regards to our Kryeziu-Morina example. Kryeziu is their last name or a brotherhood of Morina in this case? Reason I am asking is because Kryeziu, if I am not mistaken, are regarded as a brotherhood of Thaci, at least the ones from Iballa, Puka.

    Yes, but it was specifically his fis that I could not confirm.  He was a poster on a genetics forum who had listed by his handle his his HG and where he was from, "Morine".  As we know a village even named after a fis usually contains multiple tribes for example Morina in Drenica.  

    No their last name was not tribal at all.  According to them and also in the ethnographic literature their tribe was Kryeziu, Morina brotherhood.  I was also able to come across a family in the Bujanoc area that was by fis Kryeziu, and said that they belonged to the Bytyci brotherhood.  And of course there are numerous Sopi, Morina brotherhood.  

    Logically it is the vllazni, the brotherhood in these cases that is their actual blood relations-fis.  The former appears to be where they are from, like the village of Kryezi, which in Thaci territory.  There were no Kryeziu recorded in the village of Morina (Qafa e Morines), on the other hand the Morina tribe was relatively much more spread out, 30 houses of the fis Morina were recorded by Coon in the town of Puka for example.  Most obviously though the Bytyci are not a branch of Kryeziu.  We are just seeing a case of 'fis confusion' that happened outside of the highlands.  





    True, but I just brought him up to point out that there is a possibility that part of Morina could be R1b. They are quite widespread in Kosova too. Have you ran across any literature mentioning the Sopi from Llapushnik? It would be good to try and find out where they came from. 

    Regarding Kryeziu, I can't find that link any more, but if you remember, I posted it once at anthroshqip where the old man says that Kryeziu and few other little Clans in that region are Thaci nen fis (Kryeziu that inhabit the Kryeziu village in Puka, Thaci territory). Kryeziu is wide spread among Albos though as a last name, even among Arvanits, so it doesn't have to be linked to one region or a Clan for that matter. 

    Probably they made a mistake when they wrote them. Maybe they were fis Bytyci, Kryeziu brotherhood. Going by how widespread this name seems to be, there is a possibility that such a last name grew under Bytyci as a brotherhood, just like in this case in Morina I guess.

    I havn't come across anything about the Sopi of Llapushnik although I think its likely that they are from the Suhareka area where a lot of Sopi settled and spread out from. I believe the Sopi families of Drenica noted by Vukanovic were noted to be from that area and came from there to Drenica in the 18th or 19th century, he might have said they were from Podrima though I will have to check that.

    I think Kryeziu, like Kabashi, when claimed by Thaci is just a case of them being close to eachother or associated somehow, but not actually being related. The Kryeziu name is indeed ancient and was widespread, similar to Mazrreku. I think somehow Kryezi became a toponym here and there with one part forming a tribe based on that name, not necessarily related to the other Kryezi, from which others derived the names of their brotherhoods, just like how in Kosove there are some Morina surnamed families belonging to a completely different fis.

    I don't think they made a mistake when they recorded their Kryeziu-Bytyci, they were pretty accurate in these regards. There is basis for this if you remember that Shkoza fellow claimed Kryeziu for Bytyci. I do believe though it is a case of a Bytyci brotherhood that came from a place called Kryezi or perhaps lived on their territory. It think by that by the time the Bytyci were formed as a fis that Kryeziu was already associated with certain toponyms and families.

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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by kuqezi on Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:23 pm

    2 NEW

    Fundina (Luhari)-Perkaj Brotherhood, Montenegro (Luhar of Fundina, Kuci Frontier Region): EV13

    And

    Mazrreku, Kosova (Malisheva Municipality): R1b
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Admin on Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:06 pm

    **New**


    Bytyqi (or Bytyci) Kosova (Kishnapol, Gjilan municipality): R1b R-M269
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Admin on Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:26 pm

    **New**

    Sopi - Kosova (Malisheva, Gjilan Municipality, Origin from Topojan, Luma Region, Albania): E-V13
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Admin on Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:48 pm

    *** Rezultat i Ri ***

    Fis Krasniqi, mbiemri Velija - Prishtine (Kan nje legjende ne familje se jan te ardhur prej Tuzit, Mal i Zi): J2b J-M241>J-Z590

    Ka testuar 37 markera



    Last edited by Admin on Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: The Albanian Tribe Y-DNA Project

    Post by Admin on Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:02 pm

    *** Rezultat i Ri ***

    Fis Thaci (Thaqi), mbiemri Bakalli - Peje (Origjinen prej Vokshit te Decanit): J2b J-M241>J-Z590

    Ka testuar 37 markera


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